Questions and Answers

Answer by WR: If you have a good hot compost and stir it up good, the maggots, or their “remains” should just compost along with everything else. Just more good organic material. Same is true for cold compost, but will be a little slower and they’ll probably turn into flies or something at some point, just as they would if they laid their eggs elsewhere. You could try scooping them out, but they are not hurting anything. I wouldn’t worry about the finished compost in your vegetable garden. Just, as always, be sure that you use compost that is “done” and and smells good like finished compost should. I remember the first time I saw maggots in my pile I was quite concerned and creeped out, too. That was quite a few years ago and I’ve since come to learn that, while I don’t particularly welcome them, they aren’t a problem. Good luck and be sure to write back if you have any other questions.

Answer by GM: Fly larvae are definitely ok in your compost pile. Sounds like it is healthy. You may also find some other “disturbing” insects, just be assured that your friendly bugs are doing the business of decomposition. If you feel very uncomfortable with the larvae, your option might be to purchase a bin type of composter which would eliminate the pesky problem. However, you needn’t worry about the fly larvae contaminating anything and they won’t bother your veggies. The flies that are produced are usually very slow and if you want, some yellow sticky fly paper seems to work for me. I get it at the feed store or at a hardware store. By the time you start to use the compost, the larvae should be gone. Your compost is going through a process and the fly larvae are pretty much normal. I know, ick. And I don’t use meat/dairy or oil either. If you would like to learn more about the decomp process, please look under Activities in the main menu of our website and go to the Classes page. You are welcome at any of these events and there is no fee. If you have any other questions, please feel free to write us back

Answer by JZ: 

1. You have an excellent idea!
2. Selling / marketing compost would take some research with the Solid Waste Division of NM Environmental Department. You need to check with them what the requirements would be. You may be able to sell an end product as a soil amendment, but not use the word “compost”? A contact in the department would be Tim Gray: tim.greenhouseay@state.nm.us, 505.827.0129
3. You would most likely want to do a hot composting method which is described here: nmcomposters.org/desert-composting.html. Scroll all the way down.
4. The Corrales village composting facility at the Rec. center on Jones Rd. may be a good place to visit to understand the hot composting process on a large scale. Also you could visit us at the Seed 2 Need garden composting operation (straw bale bins) on Manierre Rd., Corrales.
5. Composting worms may be added to any “cold” composting operation. They might not fare well in temps of 100 – 150F, which would occur in a hot pile. Worm composting could be done separately, then the worms and the worm castings could be sold as a “cash” crop!
6. I could stop by your place to discuss your needs. Just let me know a convenient day / time, then we’ll set it up.

Answer by JZ: Good to hear about your composting effort. Here are my thoughts: Mice are “shapeshifters” and can get into a compost setup even though they may be unwanted and
you and have made efforts to keep them out. To the best of my knowledge they do not interfere with the decomposition (composting) process, but may assist it by creating air spaces as they move around in the organic material. The only composting bin which might eliminate the entry of mice, is an elevated tumbler bin.  As they are above ground, it would be difficult for mice to crawl up the infrastructure tubing.  Alternatively you could bury your organics directly into the soil 12”-18” deep and or consider the Bokashi bucket composting method.

Note that the Hanta virus is not prevalent in Bernalillo County, NM.

Hope that this is helpful.  Get back if you have questions.

Answer by JH: An easier way might be to just line the inside of the bin with plastic or other waterproof material, i.e., a split open garbage bag. Just leave an opening at the bottom for airflow. A similar material can be used as a cover.

Answer by JZ: Your question will be received by other master composter colleagues who may also respond. Here are my thoughts: Some people may be allergic to mold (which is a fungus) spores which may become airborne in the environment. So putting a lid on your container would be useful.

Suggest that you empty the container more frequently so that the fungus does not have a chance to grow. Yes, continue to wash the empty container with soapy water. Then you might also wet a paper towel with full strength vinegar, then swab around the inside of the container, then allow it to dry out before adding scraps.

The fungus is a decomposing organism, so there is no problem adding container contents to your compost bin.

Recent seasonal warm / humid conditions may be helping the growth of mold in your container.

Hope that this is useful.    Best.

From original questioner: Thank you, a very workable answer right off the bat.

Answer by JZ: Your email will be received by a few of my colleagues who may also respond.

Here are my thoughts. I will assume that you live in the high desert as you did not send your zip code.

My sense is that you have not attended one of our basic composting classes, nor read our brochure on desert composting ?  Please see Classes under Activities in our website menu.  And see Desert Composting under Composting Info in the menu.

Your main issue seems to be insects in the bin. Insects are decomposers of organic material

so they are part of the natural decomposition process.  They will enter any bin except the Bokashi

bucket which is totally closed (see Bokashi under Composting Info).

I have not used an Aerobic 400. From the pictures I’d say that it a appears to be a snug bin

useful for desert composting.   A common issue in the desert is that sufficient moisture is not

maintained in the bin, which slows the decomposition process. Required moisture (50%) at all times

in a bin may be compared to the residual moisture in brewed coffee grounds - saturated, but not dripping.

Alternatively you could bury your organic leftovers as in trench / pit composting, buried 18” deep in

the soil insects will not be visible.

If you are considering a tumbler you might read about Tumbler Bins under Composting Info in our menu.

Organic recycling by municipalities is a fine idea, which takes political will: call / write your city counsellor and discuss the topic.

There is an organic leftover collection business in ABQ:  Home | Little Green Bucket

Answer by ME: The other composters will also send you additional suggestions. I do a cold compost with soil. So I have a mound of soil and bury my kitchen waste under this loose soil. That takes care of any smell from the waste. You might be keeping the pile too moist and there is too much nitrogen (green fresh stuff) and not enough carbon (brown dry stuff). So keep the compost moisture like the consistency of a wrung out sponge. Another tip is I collect the end of toilet paper and paper towel rolls and cut the rolls up and add to my pile (for additional carbon).

As for roaches, turning the pile with a pitch fork occasionally helps disrupt them and move them out of the pile. Place the bin or pile at a little distance from your home so they don't go inside. Cockroaches are unwanted but their activity helps break down the compost. Again turning the pile should help to keep their numbers down. Hope this helps.

Answer by JZ: I agree with what ME has said. Yes, you need to "bulk" your layers with sticks, twigs, pine cones; this will decrease compression of the wet material and allow for air flow in the pile. My guess is you have June beetle larvae in the pile; they cause no harm. Just bury them deeper. They add organic material to the pile! Keep up. You are doing a fine thing by composting.

Answer by JZ: Here are my thoughts.  Great to hear about your gardening plan. In general local desert soils are sandy, somewhat salty, have an alkaline pH, low moisture, often low in nitrogen and usually low in organic matter. A way to get more information about your particular soil is by testing it.  Free soil test kits should be available at your county extension office:

NMSU: Valencia County Extension Office  The test itself may cost about $35.00. You may do a soil shake test to determine the percent of sand, silt & clay in your sample: Soil Texture Analysis “The Jar Test” | Home & Garden Information Center

If your garden area has never been amended with organic matter, then compost would outperform any other soil amendment in the desert. For every shovel of soil you turn over add one shovel of compost, then blend, then water, then cover with 4” of organic mulch. Move mulch to the side when you are ready to plant, then replace it after planting. Consider shading during summer months.

A useful consideration in the desert is a raised bed setup.  There are many precut kits on the market. An RB helps with soil, water, shading and plant management. Your choice.

I have attached a 2 page, more detailed summary of recommendations and soil amending resources.  Let us know if you have more questions.

All the best.

Answer by JZ: You will have a generous garden!  My sense is that you have amended and "innoculated" your new bed with compost so you have organic matter and soil microorganisms working for you already.  So now you may add compost just to the top of the bed. And/or you could poke holes throughout the bed with a fork spade, push it down to the hip, which would make 10" deep holes in the bed. Then spread your compost to a depth of 1-3", then rake the compost over the holes, then water the bed, then mulch it. 1 cubic foot of compost will cover 140 square feet to a depth of 1 inch - you could increase the calculation to meet your 30x30 bed size.  Bagged compost is often sold as 1 cubic foot.  Santa Ana garden center carries bagged compost from Soilutions. Then continue soil amending..... forever! Yes, I would water, then mulch the new bed to a depth of 3-4" with shredded leaves, paper and/or straw or any combination of them. When you are ready to plant just move the mulch aside, then put in plants/seeds.  The mulch, if it has moisture at the soil surface interface will gradually decompose and continue to amend your soil. The soil microorganisms need moisture to live & work for you. Any manure ideally could be put through a composting process, creating humus before being added to a garden bed.  Many gardeners add manures in the early fall, then allow it to decompose slowly over the winter months, as you know.  So, if you have the time you could set up a "hot" compost pile with the chicken manure.  Be sure to add coarse bulking material (12") to the bottom of the pile, then add more for every 5" of wet manure that you add as you build the pile.  Cover the finished pile with a tarp. Once the pile heats up, let it "cook" for 7 -14 days, then turn & churn it.  Continue that process til it is all humus.  Maintain moisture at 50% throughout the process.A well managed hot pile should produce humus by spring.

Response by Questioner: Thanks for the quick detailed response. I should clarify that I have NOT yet added any compost to the new garden. It's still mostly pure sand and I have added nothing to it yet.  So I assume I should start by adding lots of compost now, perhaps 3 inches deep rather than one? Then follow your instructions to incorporate the compost using a fork spade (rototiller OK?), then water and mulch?  I will follow your instructions for hot-composting the chicken manure -- that'll be a first for me.

Answer by JZ: Yes, you could cover the bed with 3" of compost.  Since it is your first amendment you could rototill it in - just this one time or use the fork method. Then water, then mulch.  Be sure that any irrigation system you might setup is under the mulch, so that water reaches the soil.  After you have watered & mulched you may cover the whole bed with card board sheets, old rugs, tarps - this really helps keep moisture in the bed, in my experience - your choice. I put rocks & boards on top of tarp to protect from wind.

This info may be helpful for hot composting:  Desert Composting.  I think that you will be thrilled with the hot method results ! It is worth the work. Let me know, if you have more questions.

Answer by JZ: Your question will by received by a few BernCo. master composters who may also respond.  Here are my thoughts. You did not send your zip code, so do not know where you live.  You would have to check ordinances in the community in which you live. Let common sense and ultimate courtesy prevail. Dealing with our neighbors, on any issue, requires tact and patience.  When you and your neighbor are well disposed to a composting discussion, that would be a fine time to have a chat about your concerns. Perhaps start out talking about the benefits of composting and the successful experiences which you both have had. Then share your concerns. You may also contact: New Mexico Environment Department.

Answer by JH: To add to JZ's comments perhaps a good way to begin a neighborly inquiry is to find out how and what they will compost - will the pile be above ground in a bin or some type of structure or on the ground, or will it be below ground i.e. trench composting. Our website has many resources to assist with these considerations, and depending on your location, that may be of utmost importance. We encourage everyone particularly those on the edges of town to be cautious in selecting the site, type of composting and compost materials so as to avoid unwelcome animals and other pests. You might see our brochure "Selecting a Method ..." which is available in our Handouts under Resources in our website menu.

Answer by JZ: This site might get you started.  If you live in the desert, then do not leave spaces between the boards as then you will get too much evaporation from the bin.

How to build a new zealand box compost bin

new zealand box composting construction plans - Yahoo Search Results Yahoo Image Search Results

If you would like to see a NZ box composting setup, then you are welcome to visit the demo. garden at the BernCo. Extension office, northeast end of parking lot.  Open 9-4:30PM weekdays:

1510 Menaul Blvd., NW, ABQ 87107. Best.

Response from Questioner: Would it allow too little oxygen if I used plywood for the back and

left and right sides?

Answer by JZ: You could use plywood on 3 sides.  Convective air flow is established in a desert bin by using coarse bulking as you build a pile.   See the diagram in our brochure.

Answer by JZ: You have a fine idea in repurposing palettes. They are a  fine “skeleton” for a New Zealand Box style bins. You may leave a small gap at the bottom for air intake. My experience that it is not necessary, but if it makes you feel good, do it. You could experiment, in one box leave gap. In the next box leave no gap, then compare moisture management in the 2 bins over several months. For me, no gaps work just fine.

I have been using the NZ box at 3 sites in ABQ for several years. At each of those sites we made the side slats close fitting, with no gaps.

So all of them are very snug – useful in the desert. The front of the bins have sliders so that we can get in, which have a few small spaces (cracks) as they are stacked one on top of the other.  These sites are open to public: ABQ Garden Center, Open Space Visitor Center, Bernalillo County Extension Office. See Homemade Bins under Composting Info on our website menu.

An option for you to consider is lining the inside of the palette bin with a appropriate sized tarp. This will help reduce evaporation. The excess top may be used as a cover for the top of your pile.

The way we get airflow in a snug desert bin is not so much with air gaps in the bin but by using coarse bulking material as the pile is built up. Bulking reduces compaction of wet organic material then allows for convective airflow. If you are doing the hot process method then the moist warm air will rise up and aerate the pile – a chimney effect. See the picture of a bulked pile in our webpage about Convective Airflow in the Composting Info section of our website menu.  It represents how air passes thru. Bulking is finger size, sticks, twigs, pine cones, corn cobs and stalks. These will not decompose at the same rate as your other organics.. They are sifted out when you harvest your finished compost, then used all over again in your next batch. This harvested bulking is loaded with microorganisms which may serve as a microbial inoculant for your next pile.

The front of the bin may have sliding slats which open so that you can do your work. Importantly – notice that the top of the pile in the attached pic. has a cover drape, which will block moist air from escaping – evaporation. I prefer a non porous drape as in a recycled piece of plastic. Other options would be cardboard, rugs, 4 inches of leaves or straw.

If possible put your bins in shaded are in the summer months. Yes, the summer heat in LV is an evaporation factor.

You may enjoy reading: http://docs.nmcomposters.org/composting-in-the-desert-2018.pdf which describes bulking for both hot and cold process setups.

Let us know if this is helpful and if you have more questions.    Compost on !

From original questioner: One more question: sorry to bother.

I noticed that the planks for the NZ style box look pretty sturdy. I was thinking of using 6″ wide cedar fence planks/pickets for the removable fronts, but after seeing those pics and a few other similar styles, I may need something sturdier. Have you or anyone you know had experience using the cedar fence planks?

Answer by JZ: I think that you could cedar fence planks. They get a little brittle after a few years in desert.  I coat them with linseed oil once in a while which seems to decrease cracking.

Green pine needles would contain nitrogen. Brown needles would be mostly carbon. As the composting / decomposition process is a neutralizing process, acidity is not a problem. Mixb(dilute) the needles with other organic and all will be fine. Your finished compost will have a pH, about 7.0, neutral.

I volunteer at the Open Space Visitor Center open Tues. – Saturday, 9AM – 5PM, 6500 Coors Blvd. NW, ABQ.. I could meet you there, in the composting zone, whenever.

Open Space Visitor Center (OSVC) — City of Albuquerque

Keep us informed as your project moves along.

From original questioner: Thank so much. Sure appreciate the quick replies and thorough information. I was using a tumbler I got on sale at Big R, but to no avail. I realize now it was probably too dry inside with all the ventilation holes. And being a church, we go through tons of fresh flowers in a year, and I just can’t stand throwing them all away anymore. The tumbler couldn’t handle that kind of intake, so time to go big!

Maybe I’ll catch you at the Open Space VC in the near future.

Answer by JZ: Sure, You may enjoy reading our pages on tumble bin under Composting Info.

From original questioner: Thanks for that. I evidently did most things wrong, namely leaving it out in the blasting sun. The instructions that came with it said to have it in a sunny spot to heat up the insides, but I realize that what may work in Illinois where it’s manufactured may not work here. Combined with our single digit humidity and ever-present wind, no wonder it failed. Maybe I’ll be it to the shady spot I have in mind for the NZ bins. Looking forward to this adventure in composting! Lol

Answer by JZ: Tumblers can be useful.  Yes, put in shade in summer.  I use an old tumbler to store my finished sifted compost – useful.

From original questioner: You’ve been a great wealth of info today. I’ve learned a lot and thoroughly enjoyed our correspondence. May I bug you with one more question: with what do I check the moisture level of a compost pile?

Answer by JZ: Sure. Anytime.

This is visual and tactile for me.    It is recommended that moisture level at all times be at 50%. I compare this level with the residual moisture in brewed coffee grounds, or a squeezed out tea bag or a wrung out sponge. Look at brewed coffee grounds after they’ve drained for five minutes, see how they glisten with moisture, stick a finger in so that you feel this moisture level. When you look in your bin the ingredients should “look” and feel moist. With a gloved hand grab some of the organics in the bin. They will be sticky moist and clump together, but should drip very little when squeezed.

There may be a tool / product for checking moisture (?).  I just use visual inspection and a gloved hand.

Answer by JZ:  Welcome to desert composting.  Your question will be received by other colleagues who may also respond. Here are my thoughts. Moisture conservation in a compost bin is a challenge in the high desert, which is workable. A bin made from pallets which is unlined is too porous for desert composting, allowing for too much evaporation. A simple remedy is to line the inside of the bin with cardboard or an appropriately sized tarp. Then also cover the top of the pile with similar materials when you are finished making additions. If possible place your bin in the shade. If you have no shade then cover / drape the whole setup with 2 layers of shade fabric or cardboard. Sprinkle with water, as needed, to maintain moisture at about 50%, which is similar to the residual moisture in brewed coffee grounds. There will be less evaporation in general as we move into fall and temps. drop., but moisture should be maintained in all seasons.

You may find it helpful to read our desert composting brochure.  See Desert Composting under Composting Info in our website menu. For how to line any inner bin with tarp see Homemade Bins under Composting Info.

Hope this is helpful.   Compost on.   Let us know if you need help.

Answer by JH: Welcome to New Mexico (which isn't new and isn't Mexico)! You may also receive responses from others in our organization, some of whom are also Sandoval County master gardeners.

First, I encourage you to attend one of our free basic composting classes to speed up your learning process. 

In the meantime, you can check out compost bins at amazon or this site, to name two:

http://www.planetnatural.com/composting-101/composters-bins/ and I also recommend you look at our desert composting brochure.

If you composted in Nashville, then you understand the basic components - greens, browns, air, water. The difference here as you have caught on is that we have plenty of air, not much water. This requires us to enclose and cover the bin and keep the contents moist. Any commercial bin system will likely have more air holes than appropriate for our weather conditions and those must be covered to prevent moisture from escaping. It would be most helpful to attend a class - to learn how to compost in the desert as well as to learn about all the various ways of creating a suitable bin without having to purchase one.

As for gardening, that's not as much our thing (though many of us are also MGs) but there are many resources available through the master gardeners' organizations. Sandoval County master gardeners offer a number of classes and here is the link to their event calendar page: http://sandovalmastergardeners.org/events-calendar/

You will probably be happier by gardening in raised beds as you will have better control of your soil conditions using this method. While it may seem like this is an impossible environment, keep in mind that humans have lived here for hundreds of years --- long before there were grocery stores and farmers' markets. But this is an extremely harsh environment and our current unseasonably hot and dry weather is the perfect example. If your garden area is exposed to full sun and/or wind, you will want to prepare the area in such a way to screen plants from too much of either. There are many successful gardeners and beautiful gardens in this area so don't be discouraged. But do educate yourself by taking full advantage of others' experiences.

A good local gardening resource is Bernalillo County Master Gardeners Down To Earth manual - providing information on when and what type of heirlooms and cultivars are suitable, monthly chores and planting schedules, problem-solving, etc. It is available at local garden stores.

There is also a County Extension Office hotline in both counties. I encourage their use for any questions you have as you learn how to garden in the desert.

Best of luck!

Answer by JZ: The challenge of composting in the desert can be met!   To that end we have prepared a brochure that specifically addresses the topic.

The BernCo. Master Composter Assoc. has regularly posted classes, most of which are free to the public.

You live in Sandoval Co. which has a very active Master Gardener group which also offers free public classes:  The Urban Horticulture Series and Gardening the Masters all classes are posted on the website:  sandovalmastergardeners.org    You may join their mailing list posted on the homepage.

There are a few master gardeners who live in Placates. I live in Rio Rancho and am also a SandovalCo. master gardener.

The Extension office in Bernalillo, 9AM - 4:30PM,  The horticulture agent is Lynda Garvin.    505.867.2582

The office is available to answer your gardening questions.

A quite useful book for gardening in the  desert is “ Down to Earth “  available at local libraries & bookstores.

A simple bin that might suit your need is the “ Garden Gourmet “  it may be used statically, i.e. no turning  or actively: Garden Gourmet

Hope this is useful for you.   Let us know if we may be of further help.

Answer by WR: Since this is perhaps more of a gardening issue than a composting issue, be sure to contact the Master Gardeners via the link I gave below.  I think you'll get some good information from them.  Note that, as mentioned at the bottom of the page about the MG hotline, they are in the off season and most of their questions are handled through their Ask An Expert page: https://abqmastergardeners.org/public-ask-an-expert 

Answer by JH: My thoughts: being from Ohio it was common to see lots of earthworms on the sidewalks after a drenching rain because they can’t tolerate the saturated soil. I suspect that perhaps birds are feasting on them which might partially explain the many holes. The good news is that those healthy earthworms are aerating the soil so you don’t want to use chemicals to remove them. They are beneficial.

Answer by RB: In doing a little research, I discovered that nightcrawlers can be problematic if there are enough of them, because of the hard lumps their castings make  in the lawn.  They do not, however, kill the grass—as Jana pointed out they aerate and and and add nutrients to the soil, so chemicals should not be used. The ideal solution (in my opinion) would be to rent chickens to eat up your worms.  Unfortunately I just checked the Rent the Chicken website and they don’t include NM in their service so that’s not an option unless you know someone with chickens and a portable coop (called a tractor) that would rent you the birds for a month or two. I suspect ripping out the lawn might only be a temporary fix since many of the worm eggs might be left behind. Sorry not to be more helpful!

Response from original questioner: Thank you all so very much for your investigative work and for sharing your information with me. I love the idea of borrowing our next-door neighbors chickens, so I will look into that. The latest picture I sent with the dirt mounds, are not from birds trying to get to the worms. Those are the mounds of dirt/worm castings that we are trying to get rid of. It has been really funny to watch robins attempt to eat these worms. A couple of years ago we had lots of robins come to the yard and work really hard to get these worms out of the ground. When crawling on the ground, they are about 5 inches long but as the worm tries to stretch it to get it out of the ground, it becomes much longer. For the last couple of years, the robins seem to have given up. I’ve also tried feeding them to my turtles, but they also will not eat them. I assume it’s the diameter of the worm, the tough skin or the fact that the worm is flopping around hitting the turtle in the head while the turtle is trying to bite it. I wish that we had just the garden variety earthworms because we would not try to get rid of them. These nightcrawlers have become very destructive. You have all been very helpful and very gracious to take the time to reply. I will leave you with one last set of pictures comparing a handful of  nightcrawlers in comparison to an earthworm.

Response by WR: Hey all, is it possible that these are "Jumping Worms", an invasive species of earthworms from Asia? Do a web search for New Mexico Jumping Worms.  I couldn't find anything to verify that they made their way to New Mexico except the opening AI that actually said they are in New Mexico, but I don't necessarily trust the AI.

Response by JH: If they are jumping worms, they have cocoons which would be evident in the top 2 inches of soil and they SHOULD NOT be fed to chickens.

Response by original questioner: You guys are wonderful!! We are really appreciating all of your suggestions and ideas!  Please keep them coming, even if you happen to hear something in the future—we will plan on dying in this house that we've lived in for 35 years. Today's shout out goes to WR and KJ, for the reference to "jumping worms"!!  Fortunately, we don't have that type of worm, but we started looking for info about them on-line and found an interesting YouTube video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bFl6Pw6nzQ) featuring a man from University of Wisconsin-Madison who talks about them. The best part of the video was his suggestion at the end about using ground mustard mixed with water to encourage the worms to come out of the ground. We tried it yesterday, late afternoon and it worked!! It was amazing how quickly the devils came out—we had 16 in about 5 minutes. Of course it was only an area about 12" X 12", so it may not be feasible for the entire yard, but it was shocking—and GROSS. Also, we learned that before walking on different grass/dirt areas, we are all supposed to rinse off the bottoms of our shoes because even by being in our "worm yard", we can spread them to the front yard—probably true for the lawn mower, but how realistic is that? This is a great example of why we keep reaching to people (I'll be emailing the man in Wisconsin next) and really appreciate every suggestion and idea. We live in the area of Menaul and Tramway, so if you'd like to come by and see for yourself what we're talking about, let me know!

Response a few weeks later by WR: I was wondering if you've learned anything new about these mysterious worms. Were you able to find out any information from the Master Gardeners.  Sure hope you have had some success figuring out what best to do.

Response by original questioner: Thank you for remembering us! What we have determined is that they are very healthy Night Crawlers, not the Jumping Worms. Did you get the photos I sent last month? Yuck! Through a series of conversations with people we stumbled upon a YouTube video of Inside Edition three years ago, with an interview with Bradley Herrick at a Wisconsin university about the Jumping Worms. I wrote to him but never heard back, so he may not be at the university anymore. In the interview he had a great suggestion of using powdered mustard mixed with water to draw the worms out of the ground. We tried, even though it isn't feasible for such a large area, but it really worked!! We got 16 worms in 5 minutes in an area 12" X 12"!!! We also reached out to Steve Churchill of the Urban Worm Company in PA and he was nice to reply but had to clue how to get rid of them.  At this point we are considering tearing out the Blue Grass, let the ground sit for a year or two and hope that the worms will die with no water and then put in Bermuda grass or some other type of grass that will take far less water. We have learned that they like just the right amount of water, but not too much and will die without any water. Fingers crossed!! We are taking all suggestions/ideas/thoughts so please keep us in mind as you are talking to people! We sure appreciate your help!

Response by WR:  Thanks for getting back to us. I'd be very curious what our local Master Gardeners would know about all this.  Also perhaps the county extension agent.  It's possible you could ask the Master Gardeners or the Bernalillo County Extension Service for a home visit. You are right, bluegrass takes a lot of water and is not great for our climate.  You didn't ask our advice about the following so please feel free to ignore (!), but I can't help jumping in: If I were you I'd think twice before putting in Bermuda Grass. It spreads into flower and garden beds, etc. and once established is pretty much impossible to control. (Believe me, I know -- I bought a house with large Bermuda Grass lawns 30 years ago and am still dealing with it.) The Master Gardeners could recommend a good grass to plant here in Albuquerque. Or have you considered xeriscape?  Not just rocks and cactus but native flowers, native grass, etc. https://www.505outside.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/XeriscapeHowTo-2020_06122020.pdf

I'm still very curious about those worms.  Please do let us know if you learn more about them.

Response by JH: That sounds like a possible solution. However, as a former master gardener I would not recommend bermuda grass as it is an invasive species. Good options for turf grass here are blue grama and buffalo grass. I have seen beautiful lawns sown from blue grama seed. Requires plenty of water to become established but then does not need much and rarely requires mowing. The nurseries that sell these seeds can explain how and when to seed.

Response by original questioner: Thank you so much! Don't worry about sending advice—we love it! We put Blue Grass in 35 years ago when temps were cooler in the summer and water was more plentiful. It has looked amazing, thanks to my husband's care for 33 of those years, until the worms took over. We didn't know that Bermuda was invasive, so thank you for that tidbit. Yes, we did try to figure out some sort of Xeriscape but we still have grandkids who play on the lawn, and we enjoy setting up outdoors with the grass to entertain. We will definitely look into blue grama and buffalo grasses. Thank you very much for the suggestions about a home visit also—I'll check into that.

Response by WR: If/when you take out your bluegrass and put in something like blue gramma, you can probably take advantage of this rebate from the County Water Utility Authority: https://www.505outside.com/residential-desert-friendly-conversion-rebates-xeriscape-conversion/

Response by original questioner: Thank you! We get these newsletters but hadn't paid much attention since we weren't planning on doing any landscaping. We really appreciate you noticing this rebate and bringing it to our attention.

Answer by JZ: Best to contact the person who oversees the composting operation for the city. Most finished compost has an NPK of about 1:1:1.

Answer from JH: Dolly, I am not familiar with that particular tumbler but I looked at photos of it online. The purpose of having any holes in the bin is to allow for airflow as well as to allow for drainage of excess water. If your compost does not smell and you are turning the tumbler as per the directions, then the airflow is adequate, and if you don't notice water puddling at the bottom, then that is not an issue either. So this particular bin may not require additional holes.

You mention that you have been unable to make compost. Questions for you are 1) how long have you been trying and 2) do you mix a batch of materials once and leave them until they are finished or do you keep adding materials to the bin as you go? The lack of progress could simply be that enough time has not passed for the materials to decompose. Solutions would be to improve the ratio of carbon to nitrogen (adding nitrogen/"greens"), increasing and maintaining the moisture level (to that of moist coffee grounds), and then allowing enough time to pass (18 months or more for this particular bin). If materials are being added after the initial setup then even more time is needed. If you feel all these steps are being taken and there is still no evident progress, then a more in-depth evaluation of your entire system and materials might be warranted.

You may receive additional responses from other master composters. In the meantime, please feel free to provide followup information or ask additional questions.

Answer by JZ: Here are my thoughts.  The Life Time- 65 tumbler does have small water drain holes. When the bin is in the stationary position, look down at the bottom outer edges - there you will see a small hole on each side.  Add some water to the bin, then you will see how it drains water from the two holes.  You will notice a perforated pipe in the central axis of the inside of the bin - this is for aeration of the organics in the bin.  You are good to go….

Follow the tips posted on our Tumbler Bins page.

Let us know if you need further help.   Keep up !

Answer by JZ: Here are my thoughts:

• Composting worms ingest decomposing organic materials and the microorganisms on them. Sure, a variety of greens & browns in a worm setup is useful, but keep in mind that that worms will consume anything that is in the process of decomposition or decomposed already.  In their natural environment, generally speaking, eg. a forest floor, they would have mostly decomposing moist carbonaceous materials available to them, eg. brown leaves.

• In an aerobically maintained composting setup the pH will self-adjust, over time, usually ending up neutral in the humus end product. In my opinion, when worm castings reach a depth of 6 to 8 inches, then the bin should be harvested. Deeply compacted worm castings may create anaerobic conditions in a bin - creating unpleasant odors. Bins contents may also be "fluffed" from time to time, to aerate them.

• The  ideal C:N ratio in a composting setup is 25-30:1. If this ratio is maintained, then it provides balanced nutrition for microbes, which then proliferate in the setup. This ratio is most relevant to hot process composting (thermophilic) operations.  Worm composting setups are a cold process and so rigid adherence to the ratio is not so important. Whatever organics you add will begin to microbiallly decompose, get softer, then worms can ingest whatever is decomposing - green or brown.

• Yes, info. on paper products may be confusing. The easiest, very natural organic material to add to a worm set up is shredded moist brown leaves. Then you have no issue with contents of paper products.

• An important consideration is “how are your worms doing”?  If they are reproducing, most likely, their environment is fine.

• We consider coffee grounds nitrogenous (green). Nitrogen will escape from any organic material when the material is left exposed to air & sun over period of time. So, fresh coffee grounds most likely have more nitrogen than old, exposed grounds.

• We consider the following acceptable for composting setups, including worms: newspaper, egg carton, paper towels, napkins tissue, brown bags, filters and cardboard - all shredded before adding. Printer paper, would be your choice.

We avoid glossy, slick, colored, wax / plastic coated papers. Any paper contaminated with chemicals, eg. paints, oils, etc..

Let us know if this is helpful.  Keep up, worm composting is a fine process.  

Answer by JH: Firstm while I think the google search engine is a wonder of our modern world I would not rely on it for compost information for the desert. Many good composting sources do not differentiate on climate. Our website however has excellent resources and information specific to a high desert climate. One of these resources is our compost mix calculator. Another is our lists of browns and greens.

As for coffee grounds, they are an excellent source of nitrogen (greens) and are bountiful and any coffee shop will likely provide them - free nitrogen! And while shredded copy paper is fine as a brown addition to a compost pile, it would not be a good choice for worm bedding for the reason you mention.

And if I understand your question, you’re asking specifically about worm composting. If so the C:N ratio is not important. You do not want to overheat a worm bin but you do want to provide your worms food and bedding all of which they will consume. Yes, pH is a concern in the worm bin so limit amounts of additions like coffee grounds.

Please read the excellent how-to resource on our website about worm composting. Here is the link.

If I’ve misunderstood your question feel free to reply all and clarify. Thanks for your inquiry and best wishes.

Response from Questioner: Recently had populations declining pretty sharply so trying to trouble shoot and narrow down the cause.With the c:n ratio for the worm bins, I was worried that it would start to smell bad like standard compost if the ratios got out of balance... and since I live in pretty dense urban/suburban area (desert coastal) don't want neighbors noticing anything. I usually stir the contents of the bins weekly just to keep them from turning anaerobic, sample counting worms to get an idea of population health (#'s falling/climbing). Again, thank you both. Greatly appreciate your time and help!

Answer by JZ: Other of my colleagues may also respond.  Interesting question. Specifically I do not know the answer to your question. Some thoughts. If, the bales you used were to contain residual persistent broadleaf herbicide, then only the edges of your feedstock pile would be in contact with the bales.  So one might line the inner aspect of the bin, perhaps with a tarp or fish pond liner, then any herbicide would not come into contact with the feedstock. Theoretically after about 2 years the herbicide in a bale product should be biodegraded, so if you could find some old bales, that might be useful to get you started.  This is an irritating problem! If you find any new info. please do share it with us.

You might also contact the BernCo. Extension Ag. agent with the same question. 

Also see Persistent Herbicides.

Answer by JZ: My distant observation is that they are a fly larvae - which fly? don’t know. My guess is that they decomposers, so would be beneficial to a composting setup.

Answer by PB: I also do not have one but have gotten plenty of feedback about them. The most frequent criticism is that the material tends to compact and it ends up clanking around like drying tennis shoes in a dryer. Also this is definitely a batch type Composter so does not meet the needs of a dump and run type of person. Another comment is that it is hard to keep the right moisture levels.

Answer by JH: This type of bin was my introduction to composting because it was advertised to make compost in 2 weeks! Boy, was I a sucker!!!
Pros:
* Takes up little space
* Looks tidier than a pile on the ground
* Relatively easy to turn even when full
* Easy to move if on wheels
* Regular turning of the bin contents and maintenance of proper moisture will eventually be rewarded with a small amount of compost
Cons:
* Initial cost is significant
* Capacity limited
* Frequent turning of tumbler required – much more than advertised
* Doesn’t seem to be any more efficient than other methods
My advice: a tumbler is a quick way to compost a few hundred bucks. I would recommend vermicomposting instead of a tumbler for those with limited materials. For those needing greater capacity, you just can’t beat straw bales or the handmade wire bin held together by clothespins. Even with the cost of the tarp needed to line and cover this kind of homemade system, it’s much less expensive while also being easier to manage.

Answer by JZ: I bought a big tumbler, secondhand. Then I filled it with wet horse manure and bulking material. Now its too heavy to turn it! JH and PB have some good points. Purchased new, I think they come with instructions. Best thing for a friend considering a composting method is to attend one of our classes. My preference, so far, is the dump-n-run bin with a flip door on top and a opening at bottom to harvest finished product. It’s neat, great for static (no turn) composting and produces humus.

Answer by RR: I started serious composting using a compost tumbler I got passed down from my father-in-law. I thought it was great. Granted, it is a batch process, but it worked great. When it rusted out, it cost big bucks for replacement parts. Then I got a bigger used one on Craig’s List, and it rusted out, also. So I had some stainless steel parts made and rebuilt it for less than half of what it would cost for the new parts. They are not for everyone. I use it in addition to my wire ring (lined with cardboard) batches, but I also have a lot of room to store materials while the batches are working. I like it, and I think it makes better compost, but the initial investment is a lot higher than homemade. Plus, like I said, you have to have room to store the materials for the next batch. But that’s the method I use, and it works well for me.

Answer by RB: My husband and I have two of the plastic turn bins – as JH said: pricey! I have had poor luck with them which mostly has to do with laziness. We do have the directions which are quite specific (and accurate) about the amount of moisture. It was easy to let it dry out–way too much ventilation for this climate. The result is the tennis balls in the dryer effect. JZ suggested taping over the ventilation screen and adding bulking material. That combination helped a lot in preventing the lumps from forming. We used the dump, add water, turn, then run method rather than a batch method, but once a barrel is full, you are stuck which no place for waste materials a few weeks (of turning and watering) until the composting is complete. As JZ says, the barrel is very heavy and hard to turn with it’s full, and as JH says, there is a pathetically small quantity of finished compost when you’re done. The bottom line is the barrels are effective if used properly, but the process takes a lot of work and fussing over – in my opinion, more that turning a hot pile every week!

Answer by SB: I’m with RB. I have two different barrels in addition to a tower. The barrels are faster but do take more attention, watering and turning (which can’t be done in the winter when my barrels freeze up). The compost is good if I remember to turn them but, as has been already said, they are heavy. My tower used to shut down in the winter but now I have some red wrigglers in the tower, it works all winter. The only problem with the tower is I have to get on my knees to dig out the finished compost, putting as many red wrigglers back as I can, while I can just tip the barrels into a wheel barrel to sift.

Answer by JZ: Great to hear that you have been busy getting your composting setups in order. Here are my thoughts: The Juwell Aeroquick bin is quite porous and will allow for significant evaporation / loss of moisture.  Possible fixes using a good quality duct tape and / or a suitable caulk or a combination thereof. Each corner section has a small air gap running from top to bottom, the bottom collection doors do not fit snugly, the top does not close snugly and of course there are multiple air intake holes along the bottom edge.

Decide which harvesting door at the bottom you’ll use in the future, then tape shut the other bottom sliding door.  Over tape all of the air intake holes at the bottom perimeter.  This will make the bin more snug. This will also reduce the possibility of rodent entry.  Air intake will come from around the cracks in the collection door (untaped) which you’ll use in the future.

The bottom should freely drain liquids, so underlining with plastic is not desirable.  Underlining the whole bottom area of the bin with 1/4” hardware cloth would allow for drainage and at the same time discourage entry of rodents.  The hardware cloth should cut big enough to upward overlap the bottom edge of the bin where the the air holes are.  You would not be able to overlap the cloth over the collection door, because then you’d have a time accessing the finished compost.

You may facilitate air flow in a snug bin by using bulking material as you build up organic material in the bin.  Subsequently you’ll get convective upward air movement in the bin which is explained on this page via a Compost Info page in our main menu.

As the top does not close snugly / tightly be sure to cover / drape the top inside contents of the bin.  I repurpose an appropriate sized piece of plastic to cover the top of my pile inside the bin.  This will decrease upward evaporative moisture loss.

A Bokashi mix (make your own) is described here:  https://www.the-compost-gardener.com/bokashi.html  Eventually you may add Bokashi bucket contents to you soil or your compost bin.

As you are just beginning with the Worm Farm, I’ll suggest that you start indoors.  Get used to working with it.

Hope that this helpful.   Get back if you have questions.   All the best.

Answer by RB: Yes it is possible to make your own Bokashi bran, and even with the cost of the EM1, it is much more economical.  Here are a couple resources on the Internet:
How To Make DIY Bokashi Flakes
https://www.turningtogreen.com/post/diy-bokashi-bran

An excellent resource on Bokashi which contains a recipe for the bran  is Adam Footer’s book Bokashi Composting: Scraps to Soil in Weeks.  I highly recommend it.

There is a link on our website that goes into Bokashi composting in some detail.  It pretty much covers what would be included in the class, you may find it useful. 

Hopefully this will prove helpful.  Good for you for going all out on composting!

Answer by RR: Leaving your open-bottomed bin in contact with the ground allows worms and microbes in the ground to enter the compost material, while a small (1/8″ – 1/4″) hardware cloth will keep out the unwanted pests, as JZ said.  I have a different brand of compost tower that also has an open bottom. I built a small wooden pallet, covered it with 1/4″ hardware cloth and weed barrier, and placed the tower on it. This, combined with bulking material and taping the side openings, facilitates convective upward air movement.  Thanks for your interest in composting.

Answer by JE (a microbiologist): Mold is a fungus and not bacteria. However, if something smells bad, then it is probably from anaerobic bacteria. The bacteria that spoil food don’t make us sick as much as they gross us out. Most of the bacterial food pathogens don’t smell at all! The deceptive little buggers. I agree that putting spoiled food into any compost pile means the microbes are already getting started at the process.

Answer by PB: I agree with this too. Just spoke to a group this morning and the subject of mold came up. I have them basically the information WR and JE have stated above.

Response from Original Questioner:  Thanks a lot JE and PB for your thoughts. I did a google search for “don’t put moldy food in compost” (without the quotes) and most that came say it’s fine to compost moldy food. The one person I found who said not to compost moldy bread also said to not compost bread at all as it “adds nothing to the compost heap”. Of course, I don’t agree with that at all, so don’t consider that person to be a credible source. A major reason to compost is to keep organic waste out of the landfill. Also, bread contributes plenty of organic matter to the pile, per volume. The only reason I wouldn’t compost bread would be if I were concerned about dogs or other large animals eating it. Which wouldn’t be a problem in a tumbler bin.

Answer by JZ: I will try to answer your question(s).  You have a fine idea.  If there is a local manufacturer for what you describe - I do not know about it. Don’t know of a specific source for what you envision, but this website -  I think has a kit which gets close to what you describe with an

attached video:  Raised Cedar Garden Bed Mini Greenhouse Kit 3'x6' | Gardeners.com

Let me know if this is helpful.  Then we can go from there.   Best.      

Answer by JZ:  Others may also reply. Here are my thoughts. Great to hear about your experience with red wigglers. You seem quite knowledgeable. A variety of earth worm species may co-exist in any well amended moist soil sample along with a variety of fungi, microorganisms and insects. So then as far as I’m aware another species of earthworm in your bin is probably not a problem. Continue to monitor the situation. My sense is that all will be OK.

Answer by JZ: Great that you are considering this vital aspect of decomposition in the composting process. I think what you would be considering too is how ratio variations would impact on the rate of decomposition. I think you might consider this experiment as also an exercise in manipulating microbial nutrition.

What composting process you intend to employ would influence microbial activity, therefore the decomposition rate:   Hot process or Cold process. Pardon if I am mistaken, but you did not mention your chosen process  in your mail.

Some organics which may be easy to get in the winter months in BC might be:

a. Shredded brown leaves and / or shredded paper products - browns / carbon

b. Coffee grounds - greens / nitrogen.  Area coffee shops, UBC cafeteria might save them for you.

You could vary these by weight in your test setups.

The variables which would impact decomposition:

a. C:N ratio of mix

b. air content/ flow thru the set up - bulk density of the mass.   How will air flow be managed ?

c. moisture content of the mass / mix

d. temperature of the mass / mix

e. pH of the  “        “        "

f. particle size of organic ingredients added - not mentioned in your mail

g. Chosen composting process - hot or cold ?  This choice will impact on the time for decomposition to proceed and be completed.

h. Management of the setup:   static  or  actively turned & churned

h. Will beneficial insects be involved ?

i. Will microbial inoculants be added to the setup ?

j. What criteria will you use to determine that the decomposition process is complete?

This is what comes to mind.     Excellent project.        Please keep us informed as you move along. All the best.

Answer by JZ: Some ideas for you:

1. Consider pit or trench composting directly in the soil.  Bury all the organic additions 12-18” deep.

2. Consider Bokashi bucket composting.  Bucket contents are eventually buried in soil, as above. The bucket is a closed system - no insects get in.

3. Appropriately buried organics do not seem to attract roaches.

4. Consider an indoor worm bin setup. Screen over any holes in the bin.

5. For an outdoor plastic compost bin:

a. You may underline the bin with 1/4” hardware cloth, wrap the cloth up from the bottom, up along the outer edge/sides of the bin. Then secure it snugly around the bin.

b. Cover over any holes in the bin with window screen. You may do the same for a trash can bin

6. Consider a metal-leg-elevated tumbler bin - difficult for insects / mice to crawl up the metal legs into the bin.

If I think of more stuff, then I’ll get back to you.

Hope that this is helpful.   Get back to me with questions.    Best.

Answer by JE: First, mice and insects are two different things in my mind when it comes to compost.

Mice:

To avoid mice you can make it a hot pile which requires

1. Turning the pile more frequently - once a week or so

2. Making sure the pile never dries out

3. Starting with a pile 3 feet by 3 feet

Compost in a container such as a tumbler but a tumbler is a build it once and don't add more until it is finished.

You can also try worm or bokashi composting in a container.

You can also see mice as part of the composting process.

Insects:

I am not worried about insects as I see them as part of the composting process. I just keep my pile away from my house. However if this is an issue for you try hot or container composting.

Answer by JZ: Mice are sometimes attracted to foods in a compost operation, e.g., meat & cheese.  So such food could be left out. Adding leaves, garden residue & clippings, paper products to a compost operation (properly managed) will produce a fine finished product.

Roaches are part of the process, hard to eliminate.   Choices for a homeowner who wishes to avoid these insects might be pit / trench composting right in the garden soil and / or worm bin composting and/or Bokashi bucket composting.

You are welcome to attend any of our free to the public classes posted here:    NMSU: Bernalillo County Master Composters: Classes/Activities for the Public

Answer by JZ: Great to hear about your composting efforts. I am copying to master composter colleagues,who may also have some comments.I nsects are a beneficial part of the composting ecosystem (food web) including roaches. Some are so small that you cannot see them. They are all ingesting organic material,then defecating in the pile, thereby adding manure (organic material) to the pile.  Some are eating other insects. Insects will stay in the bin as it is a safe place, moist, dark and there is plenty of food for them. They do not interfere with the decomposition process, but do benefit the process. So, compost on ! Hope that this is helpful.  Let me know if you have questions.  Best.  Keep up.  

From Original Questioner:  I feel much better! Thank you so much. The class did a great job covering how to make the compost, but I was wondering what is the most beneficial way to use it once it is ready. I was hoping to use it to revitalize the soil where we have our garden. Is the best way to do that to till the dirt and then mix the compost in next season or do we plant first and then lay the compost on top? Will it blow away with NM winds? Do we need to wet it so it soaks into the ground? Is there any information on what to do after the compost is made?

Answer by JZ: Once again other colleagues may respond. I would suggest that you visit the main menu on our home page at nmcomposters.org There you will find many useful topics, including soil amending, see Soil Matters under Composting Info.

If you are just beginning to amend desert garden soil, then one approach is to dig down about 12”

Into native soil, then for every shovel of native soil add one shovel of compost, then blend. Then rake, then sprinkle the whole amended area so that the added microbes may become active. At this time of year you could then plant a cover crop, if you wish.  Examples, winter wheat or winter rye.

In the spring they would be gently tilled into the soil, thus adding organic matter.

The final step would be to cover the whole amended area with 4-6” of organic mulch for example

leaves, garden scraps, pine needles, turf grass clippings. This will help preserve moisture in the soil and moderate wind. You may also add a layer of vegetarian animal manure which is free from persistent herbicides. If you have already started amending your garden, then you may choose to spread out 1” - 3” of finished compost on top of soil.  Scratch the compost into the soil with a tine rake, then water, then mulch as above. You may amend in this fashion in the fall and spring.

Let us know if you have questions.     Best.

Answer by JZ: Here is my answer to your request, others may reply too.

1. I do not know of any substance that would be safe to add to a composting operation that would euthanize roaches.  They eat decomposing organic material. They prefer locations that are dark, moist and have organics to eat - they will stay there, not enter your home.  They are actually helpful to the composting process.

2. Another composting method you might consider instead of the barrel is to bury your organic material in a hole in your garden soil and/or worm composting and/or the Bokashi bucket method. These would provide less opportunity for roaches to be present.

You are welcome to attend any of our free to the public classes.

Answer by JZ: Here's my opinion.

* Insects, including roaches are part of the composting process as they eat & help decompose organic material. Roaches will remain where there is food, dark & moisture. They will not usually invade your living space.

* There may be commercial traps available for roaches - I am not familiar with them. Insecticides should not be added to a composting operation.

* There are 2 composting methods that may be less inviting to roaches:

1. Pit or trench composting - where you bury your compostables in the soil.

2. The Bokashi method uses a closed bucket in the first stage - no insects can enter.  Then the bucket contents are buried in the soil.

We frequently offer free Bokashi composting classes.

Answer by JZ: Roaches are possible in an outdoor bin, they are helping the decomposition process.Be sure that your bin is at some distance from your house where
there is darkness, moisture and food.  Cover the drains that are not being used in house,
at night with a plastic bag of water. Avoid crumbs & open food containers in house.

Other composting method options which may be less attractive to roaches:
* Above-ground tumbler bins
* In-ground burial of organic material in a hole, then covered with soil
* The Bokashi bucket method
* Some try underlining a bin with 1/4" hardware cloth to decrease access.

Hope this is helpful.

Answer by WR: I often see roaches in my cold compost, especially if I turn it after not having turned it for a while. If I turn it every week or two I see fewer or no roaches, I think because roaches don’t like to be disturbed. So turning your compost will probably help. And turning is a good thing for the compost anyway.

I don’t think having a compost increases roaches in my house. I don’t have a big roach problem. I might see one a month or something like that. I don’t use any kind of poison. If I’m seeing more than usual I put out some borax. It’s been quite a while (2 or 3 years?) since I’ve needed to do that.

The thing that convinced me that roaches from outside don’t automatically come inside was this experience I had a few years ago:  I bought a used mini-greenhouse from someone on Craigslist. After I got the greenhouse home I set it on my patio and dumped out the rocks they’d put in the bottom because I wanted to clean it out. To my horror, hundreds (thousands?) of cockroaches came pouring out. This was on the patio right next to my house. They disappeared quickly to wherever they go and I expected to see huge swarms of cockroaches in my house. But, to my amazement, I didn’t see a single roach in my house in the following days or weeks.

Good luck! I hope you can make friends with the roaches and don’t give up on the composting. Those roaches are creepy but actually helping in the composting process.

Answer by JZ: Here are my thoughts: Nearly impossible to keep roaches from from an open bottom composting set up. Roaches are helpful to the process as they ingest organic material making it smaller and they may ingest other insects in the pile too.  Then they produce manure in the pile. Roaches usually stay put in the compost setup as it is moist, dark with plenty of nutrition. They are "at home” in the pile. The only insect-free compost setup is the closed Bokashi bucket method. To learn about that see Bokashi under Composting Info in our website menu.

Compost on.   Hope that this is helpful.

Answer by JZ:  Forgot to mention another “low insect” method is pit or trench composting. Organic material is buried deep in garden soil: 18” - 24” where it will decompose to humus. As the material is deep in the soil, there seems to be less visible insect activity.

Answer by WR: Yep, sounds like roaches. They give me the creeps, too. I’ve been told (and have observed) that roaches don’t like to be disturbed so if you turn the compost fairly often, they’ll stay away from it to some extent. I’ll still see them occasionally but not in huge numbers, unless, as you experienced, I haven’t turned it in a while.

As far as them coming into your house, it’s good that you are maximizing distance from the house as much as practical. However, there are so many roaches in ABQ just on the streets, in our yards, in the water mains, etc. I’m not sure that the ones in the compost have a huge impact on what goes in your home. Last year I bought a little mini-greenhouse (about 2 x 4 feet) from someone on Craig’s List. It had rocks in the bottom for drainage. I decided to clean it out and started dumping out the rocks, and, to my horror, they were teaming with literally hundreds (thousands?) of cockroaches. This was on my patio right next to my house. I, of course, thought, oh no, my house is going to be filled with these roaches. But, the amazing thing was, I didn’t end up seeing any roaches in my house from that. Since you disturbed all those roaches in your compost, have you noticed more roaches in your house? For some reason that I don’t understand, I’ve seen fewer roaches in my house the past couple of years. I’m wondering if the city is doing something?? If I start seeing more than one or two in my house, I put out borax in shallow plastic lids (like cottage cheese lids) and tuck them out of the way such as under the refrigerator, stove, washing machine, bathroom shelf. This does seem to help. It’s great that you haven’t let the roaches deter you from composting! Thanks for writing and please write back or call if you’d like to discuss this further.

PS. From what you read on-line, you probably read that if you can stand the creep factor, roaches are beneficial in the compost, helping break down the materials in the compost. But, then if you turn it frequently you won’t have as many hanging around. But, it is better to turn at least occasionally. That’s even more beneficial to the compost. I know your big concern is turning it and driving the roaches into your house. I’d be interested to know if you have noticed more roaches coming into your house since you turned it. If you are, let’s talk about other approaches!

Answer by WR: Even though it's a bit creepy, it's not unusual to have cockroaches in your compost and nothing to worry about. (I've gotten used to them in mine.) They do help in the breakdown process. Unless your compost pile is right against your house, I wouldn't worry about it bringing roaches into your house. A couple of years ago, I bought a used mini-greenhouse from Craig's List. I put it on my patio, temporarily, to clean it up and when I took it apart, literally hundreds of cockroaches swarmed out of it. The patio was right next to my house and I was worried they would end up in my house, but that didn't seem to happen. I think the same would be true of a compost pile, especially if it is some distance from your house. 

Don't worry about sprouts in your compost either. Just keep the pile moist and turn the pile regularly and be sure the compost is finished before you put it on the garden. It's important to turn the pile, not to get heat from the sun, but to be sure oxygen is incorporated into the pile. Then the beneficial bacteria in the pile can breath and change the sprouts and everything else in there into compost.

It is very important not to put weed seeds in your compost unless you do hot composting. Cold composting won't kill all the weed seeds. Also don't put in roots/stems of perennial weeds such as bermuda grass or bind weed. That might not completely break down either and you don't want to spread those into your garden. We offer a short, free basic composting classes you might be interested in taking. Keep an eye on this page as more classes are added. It's great that you are composting. Feel free to write back if you still have questions.

Answer by JE: The answer to the roach issue is that roaches are a natural part of the compost cycle. I don't mind having them in my compost piles but not in my house, However, they don't come in from the piles because that is where the food is and I keep my piles away from my house. It sounds like you are doing cold composting vs. a hot composting method. I understand about the sprouts but if you dry out your compost pile your material start to desiccate and will not decompose into humus or "black gold." I would continue to make sure your compost is moist and either don't worry about a few sprouts as they will eventually go into compost or turn the pile when you see them. There is no right or wrong way, just what you feel you can do. Please let us know if you have any further questions. Also, you might want to attend one of our free course offered around the city. They are posted on our website. Good luck and keep composting.