All Questions and Answers

Answer by JZ: Your question will be received by a few of my colleagues who may also respond.
Great that you are composting.   Here are my thoughts.

Goat manure would be a green (nitrogen). Straw bedding would be a brown (carbon). So they are a fine combination to add.  A suggested guideline:  for every 2 parts brown combine with 1 part green. By using this guideline you will not add too much of either to your pile and you will provide a balanced “diet” for the  decomposing microorganisms, both hot process and cold process.

You did not provide your zip code, but I’ll assume you are composting in the desert where low porosity bins are useful. That is, not a lot of cracks, spaces or holes as that will allow for too much evaporation of moisture especially in the summer. We compensate for low porosity by using coarse bulking material as the pile is built up, as this decreases compaction of moist organics and provides for convective airflow.  This is described on page 6 of our brochure:  ‎docs.nmcomposters.org/composting-in-the-desert-2018.pdf

Might I also suggest that you cover drape the top of your pile as this will help decrease evaporation of moisture, see pic. below

Let us know if this is helpful.   All the best.  Keep up.

Answer by JH: This is a math question. 5:1:1 in pounds is 5 lb:1 lb:1 lb which equals 7 lb. Multiply it by 14 and you get 98 lb. But urea 46 is 46:0:0 and John had advised that finished compost averages 1:1:1. Again, you do the math to get to 50:1:1.

Be aware that urea 46 must be stored dry and changes chemically when added to soil. If not administered properly it can actually deplete the N in the soil. It is most effective as a fertilizer when watered into the soil or dissolved in water and used as a foliar spray. It also must be applied evenly particularly on seeds. So I'm wondering what is the intended use of this product you are making. Such a high nitrogen content calls to mind a green, bushy plant that doesn't flower. If that's not the type of plant you want, your question is best answered from a gardening point of view. But generally speaking since you're using urea 46, it seems you'd be better off amending the soil with compost first and then adding the desired amounts of N, P and K.

Does this address your issue?

Addendum by JH: So sorry, I am just re-reading my answer to you and realizing in the first paragraph that the 50:1:1 may read like a typo but is actually an error in my thinking and the reason for my comment about high N and a bushy plant with no flowers so just ignore that whole first paragraph. So much for responding before coffee. I apologize for this error.

Aside from that, knowing what plants you are growing would help. I  But I believe your question is more about how to achieve the 5:1:1 ratio with urea 46 and compost.

To be more clear, I would eliminate compost in the calculation. It is a soil amendment to add organic matter and should be worked into soil prior to planting or otherwise used as a top dressing or mulch. So I'm reading your question as how to take the urea 46, a 46:0:0 N source and add it to P and K to achieve a 5:1:1 fertilizer, and as previously stated, that's just doing the math.

But if you are amending the soil with sufficient compost, there really shouldn't be a need for any fertilizer. So I recommend being sure that the amount of compost is adequate to add 3-4" of it to the soil and gently turn it in to the top few inches. If you are planting in a planter or raised bed, you could even use 100% compost. In either case, I'd question the need for any fertilizer (again functioning blindly here as to what is being planted and what it's environment is).

The primary reason for soil amending with compost is to improve the soil biology - repopulating microorganisms, improving water holding capacity and soil tilth. Do keep in mind the earlier comments about problems with storing and applying urea 46 - that was not a typo or other error.

Is this at all helpful? Perhaps other of my colleagues will respond with more pointed information.

Answer by JZ: By adding composting worms to your garden bed you will be continuously amending your garden with humus in the form of worm castings - Good for you!

Composting worms live in the top 6-12" of soil. They need about 50-60% moisture in the soil and decomposing organic matter to eat. So, you might consider working in organic material before adding the worms, eg shredded leaves, compost, aged manure, yard clippings then moisturize everything well, then add worms, then mulch well with a few inches of straw, newspaper or cardboard or a combination of all three on top to keep the moisture in the soil.

Consider waiting until Fall to add them; it would be less stressful for all concerned unless your garden bed is in full shade. Once acclimated (about 2 weeks) and under good conditions they will breed and double their population in about 3 months. If you add now, by all means wait until the PM. Just sprinkle them on top of amended soil, they will go down, then mulch well.

If you continue to mulch the bed during winter they will be somewhat active as long as the soil is well above freezing and has moisture.

You have not said how big your garden area is, so I cannot comment on the amount. My guess would be to start with 1-2 lbs. of composting worms. As I said they will breed under good conditions.

If worms become overpopulated they would decrease breeding to reduce the population.

You should have no left-overs, just buy what you need and put them down. Hope that this is helpful.

Answer by WR: Red worms do best in very rich organic matter with plenty of moisture and microbes. I.e., they do best in the compost. They don’t do so well in the garden, at least here in our climate. (I’m not sure about other places.) You’ve probably noticed the earthworms you dig up in your garden / lawn are different than the red worms that you might see in your compost. I ended up with lots of red worms in my compost (not a hot compost pile) and I didn’t put them there. They just showed up and were happy there and reproduced (and reproduced!). But I’ve not seen red worms in the garden itself. Just those brownish earthworms. As you build up your garden with compost, then the right type of earthworms will come, the kind that like to live in the garden. I don’t know about adding earthworms to the garden explicitly. Happy gardening in this crazy, challenging but fun place to garden, Albuquerque.

Answer by PB: I put earthworms in my raised bed when it was built in 2007. They have multiplied nicely. Red wriggles / compost worms like to live in damp decaying environments. They can be found in nature under rotting tree stumps and piles of leaves. WR is correct, they will come to your compost pile if the conditions are right.

Answer by JZ: It is an excellent idea to put composting worms ( eisenia fetida), red wigglers in your garden bed, in the NE Heights. They do well well in moist soil ( about 50%) and one that has been amended with organic material. Before adding worms, water the bed well, then add, then mulch the whole bed with wet shredded leaves and /or shredded paper, and / or straw and / or manure.  This mulching will help keep the bed moist and eventually becomes worm food. So the worm castings will add a rich humus to the soil in the bed.  Local sources for composting worms are here.

Let us know if you have further questions - We have some vermicomposting classes coming up.

Answer by JZ: Other master composters may respond to your question.  Here are my thoughts.

You have a fine idea. If you practice with red wigglers in alpaca manure, I think that you will be pleased. Yes, I would encourage you to attend any one of our future worm classes. It is a fine idea to decompose (compost) any manure to its end product which is humus. Then the end product is ready to be added to your garden soil. Humus is a beneficial soil nutrient package.

Worm manure (castings) is / are humus. Worm castings are a few percentages higher in many nutrient categories, than regular compost. Perhaps what you might consider starting stating a small worm composting setup, then see how it goes. If it meets your expectations, then you could expand to a larger operation. With a bit of attention to detail you could let that be an outdoor worm setup of any size you wish it to be. A straw bale bin setup outdoors may be a useful consideration.

I could recommend the book “The Worm Farmers Handbook” by Rhonda Sherman, available from Amazon.com.

From original questioner: Thanks John, Is it too cold now to put some worms to work?

Answer by JZ: You may put worms to work now, in central NM.  As i mentioned, a bale composting bin setup would help to insulate the worms from ambient air temp.  The decomposition of organic material - manure will create some internal heat in the pile.  Importantly, the setup should be maintained at 50% moisture - similar to the moisture content of brewed coffee grounds - moist but not dripping. Once you have chosen a method for containing the manure, then the top of the pile should be covered with a tarp to contain the moisture. A variety of homemade composting bins are described and pictured on our website.  See Homemade Bins under Composting Info.

We list local composting worm sources on the website under Resources.

Amazon also has red worms for sale.

To see variety of composting bin styles, search “composting bins”   “straw bale composting bins”. Look at the pictures of each.

Answer by JZ: Great that you are getting organic matter/ material to and into your garden soil.

You start out by describing sheet mulch composting which is an aerobic method on top of the soil. Then you say that the manure and leaves are four inches deep in the soil, not on the soil surface, which confuses me.

In a well amended desert garden soil, over time the particles will become aggregated so it will be “fluffy” (tilth) with air/oygen/water spaces in it. As mentioned sheet/mulch composting on top of the soil is a valid aerobic method about which you might do further research.

Another option for deep soil amending would be a bucket in a hole.

If you are using manure it would be useful for you to know what the animal was fed and if that feed has any residual persistent herbicide in it.  The only way to know for sure is to find out if the farmer who grew the animal feed was using a persistent herbicide, which may last up to 2-3 years in the environment (in manure and in compost from that manure). See Persistent Herbicides.

Insects, including roaches are part of the compost food web. They are beneficial for the breakdown of the feedstock which you have added to the setup. See Critters in the Compost.

If you prefer an insect free (initial stage) setup then check out the 2 stage Bokashi method.

If you have a well managed raised bed setup you might consider adding about 2 cups of bed run red wiggler worms: Worm Sources.

Hope that this is helpful.  Get back if you have questions.   Compost on!

Answer by JH: JZ has covered the topic well. I would add that if the manure is horse manure it might contain a vermicide which would not be beneficial to you.

Answer by JZ: I think what you are referring to is the Bokashi bucket method.  This is a useful composting method.  It is basically anaerobic fermentation in a closed bucket with an added inoculant which contains about 10 microorganisms which “control” the fermentation process in the bucket.  The inoculant is called EM-1.  I especially appreciate this method in the winter months as it can be kept indoors.

See Bokashi in Compost Info in our site menu.  It describes the method, step by step.

Kits are available on Amazon or at https://www.teraganix.com/collections/bokashi-1

Answer by WR: The service you have probably heard about is Little Green Bucket:  https://littlegreenbucket.com/

I live near in the "Near NE Heights", near Lomas and Washington. You are welcome to bring me your food scraps.

You might want to consider doing Bokashi composting which is composting in a bucket.  It's a nice odor-free way to keep a bucket of composting organics inside.  It also allows you to compost some foods we don't normally put in compost, such as oily foods. When the bucket is finished, the contents needs to be buried.  You are welcome to bring that to me if you don't have a place to bury it.

We offer classes in Bokashi composting.  See Classes under Activities in our website menu. Also see Bokashi under Composting Info on our website.

Hope you find something that works for you.  Thanks for composting!

Answer by JZ: Other colleagues may also respond to your question.

I do not know of a worm species which is not allowed here. More research may be necessary on your part.

In general our unamended desert soil, often low in moisture and organic matter would not support many / any earthworm species, so it would be difficult for them, if introduced, to become invasive. I have no experience with night crawlers.  I think that if introduced that they would stay where they are put if conditions are suitable.

Red wigglers would be a fine addition to trench composting. The area should be kept 50% moist, similar to the residual moisture in brewed coffee grounds, then covered with at least 3” of organic mulch - shredded leaves, straw, pine needle straw, paper or cardboard to maintain moisture in the soil.

Avoid compacting this area - avoid stepping on it. In the winter months you could cover the area with a tarp to maintain moisture. There are a few containment options for maintaining red wigglers outdoors in central NM.   One is a container in the soil.  See Homemade Bins under Composting Info in our website menu.

Hope that this is helpful.

Answer by JZ: Here’s my opinion – others may respond to your questions. If your garden soil is in the high desert with high percentage of sand then (or any type of soil) adding organic material such as coffee grounds would be beneficial – copious amounts are OK. Then you need to provide moisture in the soil for decomposition to occur. As the soil bacteria and possibly worms (if you have them) will decompose the grounds to humus, which acts like a sponge to absorb water and then release it along with plant nutrients. This is very helpful in our drought condition. Decomposition of organics added to your garden soil will progress well with moisture present. You could spread the grounds on top of the soil and / or use a garden fork or spade to poke holes in the bed, then spread out the grounds, then rake over the holes, then water. Keep the bed well mulched with other organic material (shredded leaves, paper, cardboard, straw, etc.) to a depth of 3 inches. This will help keep moisture in the soil, thus decomposition of the grounds will occur over time. You could also add some the grounds to any composting operation, that you may have set up. Mix them with moisturized shredded (brown) leaves or shredded paper products. You have a valuable resource for your garden soil! Let us know, if we can be of further help.

Answer by RR: I have bought Soilutions’ premium mix several times, but truth be known, I prefer my own because their’s sheds water initially until it eventually gets saturated. Mine absorbs water right away. Probably has to do with the soil they mix their compost with. I don’t think it has anything to do with the hot process because the compost I’ve gotten from the Water Utility Authority’s SAF is very absorbent like mine.

Answer by JZ: My thoughts/ opinions.   Finished compost whether from hot or cold process looks the same in my experience. When sifted to remove undecomposed coarse material, then it looks to me like coffee grounds. If the sample is dry it will be pale, see actinomycetes. If moist it will appear darker. The picture you sent appears to be a dry sample.

a. The ashey appearance on some of the particles may be from bits of the fungus/bacteria actinomycetes.  

b. If you to add water to the sample, then I think the whole thing would become darker.  it’s a high carbon(black) substance.

It’s common when we rake leaves, yard trimmings from the soil that we’ll pick up soil particles also, which will end up in the compost setup.

Our local sandy soil particles are tan in color. Soil particles as they are inorganic do not decompose. So the tan color may be present in the finished product.  Soil particles in the compost when added to soil may then form relationships with the humus particles in the soil.

Great that you are soil amending.  I hope to do a winter wheat cover crop soon.    Keep up.     Best.    

Response by Questioner: Thanks.  You know I hadn't even thought to see how it appears wet.  Or to see whether it will shed water, as RR mentioned.  I'll do that (later when it's a little cooler.  :)  Sure appreciate your responses.

Answer by JH: Thanks for your question. The most important element of a manufactured bin here in the desert is a design that retains moisture. The type with lots of holes up and down and all around the bin will allow for dehydration and drying of the pile. Some holes at the very bottom are important to create airflow but there shouldn't be any more holes than that.

It should also allow for easy mixing of contents - a tumbler or something that can be rolled or turned is good for this. And it should also allow for easy access to the finished product so you don't have to stand on your head or climb inside to get the finished compost out.

With that said, it is not necessary to use a manufactured bin. Fencing wire or hardware cloth can be used to create a circular bin. When lined with plastic and covered to prevent moisture evaporation, this will work just as well and is much less expensive. Plus it can be adjusted to size or added to as necessary for varying sizes of piles. See our webpage on Homemade Bins.

If you have additional questions, please let us know.

Response by WR: If you do decide to go with a tumbler bin, some information here might help.

Answer by JZ: Please see Homemade Bins under Composting Information in our website menu.

Answer by JZ: I will offer my opinions.  Other colleagues may also reply to you.

* You did not mention how your composting operation is set up.  Bin? pile? tumbler? straw bale? other 

* You did not mention where you live - zip code ?

* Are you doing cold process or hot process composting?

* Is your set up covered with a tarp?, rug? cardboard?

* It is difficult to answer your question without more information…

Some thoughts / ideas:

* Practice a hot process set up, where the internal temperature of pile would reach 150F.  This temp. would destroy larvae.

Follow the guidelines for hot process in this brochure.

* Cover the top of your pile so that flies cannot get to the organic material.  I use a piece of plastic, cut to fit.

* Bury, churn in the visible larvae deep into the pile.

* If you have a cold process set up, then in mid October, the drop in temp. or frost should slow down the flies & larvae.

* Scoop out some of the larvae and bury them deeply 18 - 24”, in the soil.

Let me know if this is helpful.  All the best.

Response from Questioner: Thank you for your suggestions. Some more information: 

We have a pile. Zip code: 87107 (North Valley). We are attempting to hot compost but having trouble getting it warm enough. It is currently covered in plastic.

Ps there are also many roaches in the pile.

It is a relatively new set up would compost starter help?

Answer by JZ: Thanks for the info.

The guidelines for the hot process are here.

If your pile is not heating up, assuming that you have air flow, 50% moisture and a cubic yard of organics, then the missing variable may be nitrogen - greens, which are required for microbial cell wall formation, growth and proliferation. A ball park guide would be to combine equal amounts of browns and greens, then chop before you drop and bulk as you build.

If you wish to inoculate your setup you may sprinkle in some finished compost which contains millions of decomposing microorganisms as you build the pile.  Purchasing a “starter” would be your choice.

Roaches are detritovores - they are beneficial to the decomposition process.  All the best.    Let us know if you have questions. Attend any of our free classes.

Answer by JZ: Holes in bottom of top bucket:  about 8 dime-size holes. You may always add more holes if necessary. I do not know the size of your bucket so can’t be any more specific.

Note:  be careful about allowing leachate to build up in the bottom bucket. It may become anaerobic then become odiferous.  So empty the bottom bucket regularly - every 3 days or more often.

If you use leachate on soil around plants then dilute each part leachate with at least 10 parts water or more as it is acidic.

Answer by RR: I agree with everything John said...some further advice.  After drilling the holes, you might put a piece of weed barrier material over the bottom so the liquid will leach out, but the contents stay in.  Also, you'll find if you are using Home Depot buckets, they get very difficult to separate because of the vacuum created.  I started just setting my top bucket on the bare ground so the liquid would leach into the ground.  But, as John said, I wouldn't put it next to your favorite plant, because the leachate is very acidic.

Answer by JZ: Here are some thoughts on your problem. Other colleagues may also respond.

* Avoid any liquid build up in a Bokashi setup! My thinking is that the liquid becomes a medium for anaerobic microorganisms to proliferate, thus producing methane & hydrogen sulfide gases >> odor.  Any time you add moist organics to your bucket, add something dry, e.g. shredded dry leaves, paper towel, tissue, cardboard, etc. These will absorb the moisture so that you maintain it at no more than 50%. Then no standing / draining liquid will develop.

* Be sure to mix in the Bokashi EM’s completely with each addition. A generous, heaping tablespoon per cup of organics or more should work.

* With each addition push down the top to compact the ingredients and eliminate air from it. A potato masher works well for this. Then cover the last addition with with a piece of plastic, then cover that with a stiff piece of cardboard cut to cover the whole addition. Then put a weight on top of the cardboard, for example a palm size river rock. All of this helps to eliminate air in the system.

* Save up your organics over a few days, then add them. Not a good idea to be adding stuff daily, unless you have no other choice. This overexposes the contents to more air.
Hopefully this provides some useful info to help solve your problem. Let us know if we can be of help.

Answer by RR: It sounds like you do Bokashi similar to the way I do it. Your Bokashi bucket has holes drilled in the bottom and sits in another bucket that collects the liquid. While the Bokashi system is touted as having little to no smell, this manner of doing it creates some pretty nasty odors that you do not want in your house. I keep mine in my greenhouse. The reason it smells so bad is because when the moisture drains out of the top bucket, it collects in a virtually airtight environment, which perfect for the methane and hydrogen sulfide to flourish. One way to prevent this is, as JZ does, put materials in your top bucket to absorb the moisture. Another way to minimize the smell would be to empty the bottom bucket daily, so the moisture doesn’t have as much time to ferment. As long as you are not opening the top bucket on a daily basis, separating the buckets will not introduce more air into the closed system. Lastly, you could go to a single bucket system by burying your top bucket in a few inches into well-drained soil. That way the liquid simply drains into ground.

Answer by JZ: I will let other master composter colleagues answer your Bokashi question. Here is teachers resource list  from 2016, but still useful, I hope. Keep up with your efforts.

Answer by RB:  You may get several responses to your query as it is sent to a number of our members. First, let me say you have put a lot of work into this and it will be interesting to see how the food scrap fermentation goes.  I normally use EM1 from Teraganix and molasses to inoculate wheat bran, ferment this, then dry it so it will keep a long time and can be used to introduce the microorganisms into your food scraps as you layer them in the bucket.  However I have done some research on creating your own inoculant, as you have done, and also capturing and using indigneous micro-organisms.  There are many approaches and I cannot speak from experience on very many.

That said, lactic acid bacteria (LAB), yeast and purple non-sulphur bacteria(PNSB) are the organisms that encourage fermentation in Bokashi.  I’m sure your mixture will have lots of LAB, and some yeast acquired from the air.  I’m not sure about the PNSB which may or may not be an absolute requirement. To some extent, all composting methods involve some experimentation to find out what works for you. I would suggest you combine your mixture with wheat or rice bran, both of which are quite inexpensive and easer to manage and store. Wheat bran can be obtained at any feed store, $15-$18 for a 50# bag. 

I think the gases you are releasing don’t smell offensive is that this is a fermentation process as opposed to putrefaction, although both are anaerobic processes.  The liquid that drains off at the bottom of the bucket  tends to go aerobic and begins to stink—it makes great drain cleaner, however, because of the acidity.

You should be able to bury your end product directly in the sandy soil, but mix the soil and fermented material together—at this stage you want the microbes from the soil to move in and take over the decomposition process aerobically.  No need to add carbonaceous materials as you do in other composting processes.

There are grants and such out there, but I’ve not done any research on it, so I can’t give you specifics.

Let me know how your efforts turn out.  You should be able to see results in a relatively short time.  Keep in mind that you need to let the soil microbes work for awhile (2-3 months) before planting.

Answer by RR: Thanks for your question. Others may also respond.

Meat and bones were once living material, so they will decompose, though maybe not in our lifetimes for part of the bones. The Bokashi bran and the fact that the bucket is sealed eliminates the smell of the meat while it is in the first stage of fermenting. Once the first stage is complete, and you bury it in the ground, the fermentation stops and decomposition begins. This is where the smell could begin, but by burying it 12-18″ deep, as we recommend, and covering it with soil and mulch, you’ll never smell it, and it should prevent varmints from being a problem – I’ve never had a problem. The meat will decompose, and while most of the bone will stick around for a long time, it creates airspaces in the soil, which facilitates movement for moisture and aerobic microbes.

Something to consider: I am a big believer in the “Everything in Moderation” mantra. That is what I follow when I add meat, bones, cheese, oils, dairy to my Bokashi. And because they are harder to break down than other organic materials, you should add additional Bokashi bran in any batch you add to your bucket. The recommended amount is 1 Tbsp per cup of organic matter, which also translates to 1 cup of bran per gallon of organic matter. When you add meat and bones, sprinkle some additional bran in there – more is better than less. If it has a foul smell when you open it to make an addition, that’s an indication that you didn’t use enough bran.

Lastly, if you have a little time on your hands, I’ve found Adam Footer’s Bokashi Composting the absolute best reference for this process. It’s a quick and easy read, and I find myself going back to look things up regularly.

Answer by MR: I support all of RR’s advice and cautions. I would simply add that I’ve found putting bones through a second round of fermenting will often accelerate the softening process, which then results in a much faster decomposition when they are finally incorporated into the soil. I’ve also never had animals dig up my bucket contents–even those with meat–when I’ve buried them. And I live in a fairly wild part of the South Valley, with lots of coyotes, raccoons, skunks, and smaller burrowing wildlife.  Just be sure to let the contents finish the fermenting process thoroughly. The worms will love you for it. Thanks for good questions.

Answer by JZ: Nifty answers from my colleagues.   FYI.  We have a Bokashi class coming up. You would be welcome to register, attend and share your experiences with the Bokashi method. This and all of our classes are listed on our website.

Answer by JZ: I will try to respond to your question.  Other colleagues may also respond.  You have a fine project in mind ! The New Zealand Box is a fine choice for composting in the high desert.  However, you could start with an inexpensive setup, then gather forces for a Box in the future.   See the wire fencing bin setup here - you could have more than one of these, to meet your needs. There are many options for you.  You could start with something easy and simple, then go from there.

So, this begins our conversation.  Let’s keep talking about this project.  Let me know your thoughts on the above suggestion.

I have attached a school site evaluation form that may be useful.

All the best.  Keep up. Be talking to you.

Response by Questioner: I did read about the straw bins and the wire bins.  One of our pressing issues is bears.  We are in the East Mountains just off the Sandia Mountain.  Until the first hard frost they don't let our kids take food outside due to potential problems with attracting bears.  So, compost seems like a big bear attraction to me.  The better we can "hide" it, the safer and more long lasting our action will be.  Of course, right now we could use straw or wire, no problem, but come spring it will be.We are actually thinking of fencing in the compost area in order to have an area that we can maintain.  Hopefully a wooden box fenced in would keep bears out.  We did have one before in a small wire area and between the crows and the roaming dogs... Well, you can imagine.Being a STEM school, we actually have some money to put toward building a box system, but lack the time.  I wanted to find prebuilt ones and thought I had seen a guy in Sante Fe that had them for sale a while ago, but now I can't find him.We have a garden and a large water collection system, along with a very supportive community.

Answer by JZ: Issues with bears:

1. Avoid any food scraps, meat, cheese, fish, bread or any food that has a desirable scent that bears can smell. OK are -  leaves, paper products, raw fruit & veg. scraps, coffee, weeds without seeds, garden clippings.

2. Yes, fence the area.

3. A snugly built box bin (s) with a locking flip top.

Other composting choices:

1. Deep burial of organics in pits or trenches 18 - 24 inches deep, in your garden area (less scent for bears).

2. Indoor worm bins - the harvested casting may be used to amend garden soil.

3. Large scale Bokashi bucket fermentation indoors,  then burial in garden soil.

4. Perhaps a trial with large homemade trash can bin(s) composter that have a twist lock top, then a brick on top.  See Plastic Container Bin.

If you would like to build a snug / tight  / locking bin system, then you’d have to survey your resources  - Do you have a PTA, service clubs in the community, boy scouts, Rotary, etc.?  Sometimes these groups do volunteer service projects. A  "handy man" could probably do the job easily.   I would search the web for prebuilt kits. I would encourage you, interested staff and students to attend one of our free composting basics classes.

Answer by RR: As you might expect, bears are also a problem for beekeepers, and since beekeeping is an industry, there has been a lot more research and practical applications associated with keeping bears away from bee hives than there has been with keeping them away from compost piles. However, the concept is the same.  Here is a link to get you thinking about how to effectively fence in your compost site. http://scientificbeekeeping.com/bear-fence/     Click on the “Bear Fence” tag at the bottom of the webpage for an excellent .pdf presentation.

Response by JH: A friend of mine constructed the bear fence that Rod describes around his chicken coop after a bear got into it. He hasn’t had bear trouble for the few years since he erected the fence.

Answer by JZ:  Good for you.  Other colleagues may also have ideas and answer your questions too.

You may make your own compost bin from a plastic trash can of any size. A 30 gallon trash can works well. You will find directions for making such a bin on our website.  Go to Composting Info/Homemade Bins. Yes, I would encourage you to attend one of our home composting basics classes in the future.

I do not know of anyone who has materials to donate to you. Best.

From original questioner: Well--OK.  I'm surprised Home Depot or Lowes etc...would not have materials to donate to needy folks.   I'm wanting to build a much larger bin than a 30 gallon plastic trash can.

I will visit a few of the box stores and speak with a manager to see if they might have materials to donate.   Seems like that would be a great community service/outreach for them. Even though I have built bins in the past I will plan on attending one of the seminars.

Answer from WR: Brian, I hope you are able to build the bin you have in mind, but I wanted to let you know that I have made excellent compost for years without any bin.  I am lucky to have a remote shady corner of my back yard where two concrete block fences come together. I throw my food scraps and leaves and yard clippings, etc. into the pile.  Keep it more or less moist (if I'm around to do it) and stir it around occasionally with a garden fork.  I call it lazy composting.  It's the cold composting you hear about.  It takes a little longer to get finished compost than it would in a hot pile in an enclosed bin, but it works great and costs nothing to build. It's biggest drawback is that it probably takes more water to keep it moist since a lot of it is exposed to evaporation.  However, I really don't use a whole lot of water on the pile.  And you can always keep it covered with an old tarp or rug or blanket to help keep the moisture in. I've had lots of red worms show up in my compost and it seems to be a great environment for them.

 I know JZ and others aren't as crazy about this method since it does take more water, not a good thing here in our desert.  It would be important not to do a pile like this in full sun unless you keep it well covered.  Also you can cover it with straw or a thick pile of leaves to help keep in moisture, something I often do  I've become more careful about that after talking to JZ about this. Usually these days you see all my fresh stuff mixed in better with leaves and other "browns" with a thick pile of leaves on top.)

Also, people have had good luck using hay bales to enclose their compost.  Not sure how much those would cost and, of course, they do take up a bit more room.  Best luck to you.

From original questioner: Thanks SO much for the great info.   I also had a similar compost pile to yours at one of my previous houses.  Amazing how simple it can be sometimes.  I do have a shady spot to locate a compost pile at my current house but the issue in this neighborhood would be with all the stray cats adding "material" to the open compost pile...haha   I have enough to do keeping them away from the bird nests and families in my yard.

I just took a drive around the neighborhood and saw some landscaping timbers strown about one of the lots so will ask the owner if they are available.  When I was younger (in the 70s-80s) one could go to the landfills around ABQ and find a lot of great lumber and  other material to repurpose.  But of course that is not allowed any longer.

I was just curious on a limited income if there were places who donate material for compost bins...If I am successful in finding a source I will let everyone know.

Answer by JZ: Great idea! A resource for you would be Sam McCarthy, Santa Fe, NM:  doitwithworms.net Also see  Worm Sources under Resources in our website menu.

Is the bin you are considering outdoors in the soil ?  If so, you could build a wood raised bed frame,

then partially sink it into the soil.  The soil would provide some insulation / protection from

temperature extremes.  All of my worms are in outdoor containers in Rio Rancho. If you would do a Google search for “outdoor worm bins” then you’ll get some ideas. A phone conversation, if you like might be helpful. Just text me your name / number then I’ll call you back.

Answer by JZ: I will do my best to answer your question.  Other colleagues may also respond.

You have a fine idea to have a composting setup at your school.  There are many choices open to you.

If you would let us know the name and address of your school, then a site visit might be arranged.

Attached is a site evaluation tool which I use for schools. It may be helpful for you to review, then get back to me.

You, your staff and students are always welcome to attend any of our free composting classes, as often as you like

Be talking to you.   All the best.

Answer by JH: Most importantly you want to put worms in an outside location that will provide protection from freezing in winter and from excessive heat in summer. Red worms do best in a temperature range of 55-77, they slow down in temps below 50, and freezing temps and those above 84 are harmful if not fatal. Prior to constructing the worm bed I would verify that the temperature needs will be met.

You are correct that a soil depth of 12" is unnecessary. Moist bedding material and appropriate food scraps are sufficient to start the worm composting process. With that said, we don't teach worm farming and I am wondering whether you might obtain better information by researching that subject. To that end I've included a link below that may be helpful.

http://modernfarmer.com/2013/05/how-to-build-a-worm-farm/

Resonse from Questioner: Thank you so much!   The bed would be located on the north side of the building on the south side of the patio.  So the high temps won’t be a problem.  The low temps might.  Should we plan to provide a cover for the area?

Answer by JZ: Here's another response.   Thanks for the fine pictures - you have a beautiful space to work with! I note that you have west side soil - sand!  So I'll suggest that you add copious amounts of finished compost to the beds. The eventual depth could be 8 -12" - for a vegetable garden. The first time you add you could till it in to existing soil, then after that just

add compost on the top of the bed in spring and fall.  The red worms will get some nutrition from the compost.

Moisten the bed well before adding the worms.  Then once the worms have been added, put

down a 3-4" layer of mulch on top of the bed.  This could be straw and shredded leaves and paper and vegetarian animal manures-or any combination thereof. The worms will eventually ingest the mulch as it decomposes on the surface, converting it to humus.  The mulch will maintain moisture in the bed and some insulation during cooler months.  You may have to add some water occasionally.  Red worms really like moisture.  They move to where the soil is moist and there is some food to ingest.

Composting worms ( red worms ) are surface dwellers- the top 6 - 12" of soil.   They seems to do just fine in our mild winters.  Just keep mulching and moisturizing the bed.  If you plant in the spring, just add any organic mulch around the plants.  I do not see any problem with the drain.

You are doing a something fine!   Let us know, if you need more info..

Answer by JZ: Your question will be received by a few master composter colleagues, so they may also respond. You did not give us your zip code, so I lack information on your location in order to respond to your question.

Gardeners have been doing what you are doing, burying organic material in the soil for centuries. Yes, this practice will help amend any desert soil as the organics will decompose in the soil to humus and help amend that spot.

Best if you keep moisture in that spot by adding water to the hole before you add (bury) scraps, then cover that spot with 4 “ of organic mulch, for example leaves.  Mulching the area will help keep moisture in the soil thereby improving the decomposition rate of scraps. Another soil amendment which is very useful for our high desert soils is compost.

You could add a cup of compost to the hole whenever you bury scraps. This will add useful decomposing microorganisms to the hole which will improve the rate of decomposition.

Hope that this is helpful.  Best.

From original questioner: Super helpful. I forgot to tell u I live in north valley very close to nature center. I’ve been her 3 years and now am trying to cultivate plants that seem to love this rich clay-sometimes sandy-wormy and rooty soil!!  Even if you had said no. I’d probably keep doing this cause it seems to work. My eldest son however thinks it’s crazy.  Thank you again for such a quick response.

Answer by JZ: Excellent.  Thanks!   Compost on.

Answer by WR: The answer is absolutely yes, but you need to be careful not to bury perennial weed stems and roots or rhizomes (such as bermuda grass or bindweed) or annual weed seed. (Perhaps if you bury it 18 or more inches deep those will be ok.) I'm going to copy this to our compost-questions list.  You will probably get one or more responses from people with experience with bokashi and/or sheet/trench composting. Thanks for your email with photo and your interest in composting.

Answer by RR: I applaud your efforts to keep spent organics out of the landfill. Burying this material with your Bokashi sounds like a good way to get more microbes working on the decomposition process. The more you do this around your yard, the more workable your soil will become and the easier the weeds will be to pull. Suggestions: 1) wet the hole before you throw in the materials, as the microbes will be more effective, 2) use that pickaxe tool to chop up those plants into smaller pieces, 3) try not to include those weed seeds, as WR mentioned, 4) a minimum of 3" of woodchips (not bark chips) is a very effective way to prevent the weeds from germinating in the first place...of course you'll have to rake them out of the way in order to bury your Bokashi. Thanks for your interest in composting and soil health. The planet needs more people like you.

Answer by WR: I think most recommend 25:1 or 30:1. But 20:1 or 40:1 also work. It’s hard to be exact anyway. I don’t think the C:N numbers in the southwest are particularly different than other parts of the country. 

Of course, keeping compost moist is a big issue here in the southwest and an enclosed composter helps with that. But most of the composters I know here in Albuquerque use fence-type bins and often keep them covered with a lid or blanket or tarp. Check out Homemade Bins under Composting Info in our website main menu.  If you can put your bin in the shade that really helps.

Also see our information about Desert Composting under Composting Info.

Answer by WR, Addendum: I just reread your question and see you asked about ratio of browns to greens (vs carbon to nitrogen). The ratio of browns to greens would depend on how much carbon or nitrogen are in the actual material you are using. Please don’t worry too much about these ratios. If it starts smelling bad, you probably have too many greens (or need to turn the pile). If it’s just sitting there not changing into compost, you probably have too many browns (or are not watering and turning often enough). I find that if I just throw in what I have available it works well nearly all the time.

Answer by JH: Yes, you can compost bamboo but you are right in thinking it is best to reduce the hard stems to smaller pieces to encourage faster decomposition. If you have a cold compost pile, depending on how much bamboo you are composting and what the mix of greens and browns is, it could take many months. If you have a hot compost pile, the process will be much quicker.

If you want to learn more about the difference between hot and cold composting methods, check out the class schedule on our website. 

Thanks for your question and best wishes.

Answer by JZ: The only way to be sure that they will not sprout is to put them thru a hot composting process. Alternatively, you could put them in a closed plastic bag with some water. Put the bag(s) in the sun, till the contents liquefy, then aerate them and add to cold pile.  Hope that is helpful.   John Z

Answer by JH: It's good to know you got so much out of JZ's class. To answer your question (that others may address in greater detail), it is perfectly ok to put moldy food or other organics into the compost pile. The moldy item is just getting a head start!  Best wishes.

Answer by JZ: Agree with JH. Other than in a Bokashi bucket, mold is OK - its a decomposing fungus.

Answer by JZ: Here is my opinion. Other colleagues may respond to your question. Pine needles/ cones / tree parts are all organic material and so will decompose in the proper environment.  Some needles have a waxy coating which challenges the microorganisms - so they take some time to decompose.  As they are slow, then they may also serve as a bulking material in your operation. Either way you win!

Answer by JH: Also Paula, if you are interested in learning more about other composting methods that might be more to your liking, check out the Composting Handouts and Classes menu items on our website.

Answer from MR: My only serious concern might be if cats or raccoons have been pooping on your roof, but you would probably be able to distinguish that from algae and dust. And birds poop everywhere all the time, including in and on our gardens, without generally causing problems. My suggestion would be to trust your hunches, include it in your compost, and wash your food well if you're eating from your garden. Thanks for your question. I'm sure others will offer their opinions.

Answer by JH: Unless you are hot composting by routinely managing your compost at a temperature of 150 degrees, then tree of heaven seeds - or any unwanted seeds - should not go into the pile. However, if what you have is seedling or larger trees, either the seedless type or seedlings/trees with no seeds present, there is no danger in composting them. The roots and stems will decompose.

If you are removing a tree of heaven, be sure to remove all stump and root material as the tree is notorious for sprouting from remaining parts.

Answer by JZ: Excellent!

* Weeds without seeds may be added to a composting operation. Fresh weeds are a source of nitrogen. A large pile of weeds should be bulked with coarse bulking materials to prevent compaction as they are very moist.

* Weeds with seeds already formed are best avoided.  Noxious weeds with seeds, e.g., puncture vine (goat heads) and sand burrs should be avoided.  Parts of the bindweed plant and Bermuda grass are best avoided.

* Alternatively weeds with seeds may be placed in a plastic bag, put in the sun until the contents liquefy. That would destroy the seeds. Then add to composting operation.

* A well managed hot composting operation will destroy seeds. My sense is that you have a cold composting operation, that is fine.

* Your composting operation should be in the shade. Maintain 50% moisture at all times = to the moisture content of freshly brewed coffee grounds. Sprinkle as necessary. Cover the top of the pile with a piece of plastic. See our brochure about Composting in the Desert.

* You may add any manure from vegetarian animals, so chicken and sheep manure are OK. 

* We suggest leaving out cat, dog, pig manures, as they may contain diseases that are communicable to humans.  They could be composted separately, then the end product used around ornamental plants.

Hope this is helpful.

Answer by JH: Since I coordinate the compost systems we maintain  at the County Extension Office and Albuquerque Garden Center, I can explain how we handle weeds.

At both locations we attempt to build a hot pile in which the temperature will maintain 150 degrees for a period of time. This is not always accomplished and as a result most of the time, both piles are cold piles. For this reason, we do not put bind weed or Bermuda grass into either pile. We also will not knowingly add diseased plants.

Manures are good sources of nitrogen and can be composted. However, if the animal feed contains herbicide which is likely if it isn't organic, the chemical can remain active for as much as three years. Any such compost applied to a garden bed can potentially kill or otherwise harm plants. For this reason, we do not use horse manure or other manures if we cannot confirm the absence of herbicides.

My backyard compost pile contains chicken manure. The chickens receive organic feed and various kitchen scraps that may or may not be organic and I have not experienced any problems using their composted manure.

I applaud your efforts and encourage you to attend one of our classes. Desert composting is made easier with the helpful hints required to keep compost piles moist in our harsh, dry environment.

Answer by JZ: Great to hear about your successful red wiggler efforts. Other master composter colleagues may also send you information. Here are my thoughts: Red wigglers, as you know, ingest decomposed/decomposing dead plant material, so if your garden soil is well amended with organic matter, eg. compost that willprovide nutrition for them. Growing plants will provide sloughed (dead) root material for nutrition. They are upward feeders, so they will ingest mulches as they decompose at the soil/mulch interface.Worms would benefit your garden soil by creating tunnels as they move thru the soil for air and water penetration.Surely worm manure (castings) will add organic material to the soil. Their mucous would provide “glue” forsoil particle aggregation. Well aggregated soil has tilth. Soil moisture is important for red wigglers as they respire through a mucous layer on their skin. Maintaining soil moisture in all seasons will benefit worms. Appropriate irrigation and 4”- 6” of organic mulch on top of the soil will help prevent evaporation of moistureand insulate in the winter months. This website discusses winter worms in your area, in a bin, scroll way down: Do It With Worms | Buy Red Wiggler Worms for Composting & Soil in USA. In winter they may go deeper into the soil and / or hibernate (aestivation) for protection.As the soil warms up in spring, they will become more active and be great partners for soil fertility. Be in touch if you have questions.   Best.

Answer by YW: I just dropped another worm bin in my garden last night. It adopts both the “dump & run”/cold and the vermicomposting methods. I added greens and browns in the bin.  There are holes around and at the bottom of the bin so that the nutrients get sent out to the soil, and for the worms to roam around.  Personally, I like this method because it’s easy to feed and “keep track of” the worms. Plus, it protects them from the hungry birds. I had another bin set up last fall with only a handful of worms. Not only did they survive the winter, they multiplied tremendously.  You could try this in the ground, too. Any bin size would work.

Happy composting!

Answer by JZ: You have selected an interesting project! I’ll suggest that it might be OK to use used canola oil, but not motor oil with worms. That said, in the interest of science you might try the motor oil with a very small batch of worms and see if they survive the environment, then proceed from that result. For motor oil you might consider using fungal and/or bacterial cultures for decontamination.

Answer by PB: You might want to rethink your idea of using worms. Worms have no lungs and breathe through their skin. Oil clogs their pores and they will suffocate. We never advise putting oil cooked foods in a worm compost bin for this reason – even potato chips can be deadly to them. Therefore, trying to use them to decontaminate oil would not give her the result she is looking for as they would not survive long enough to prove or disprove her hypothesis.